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know of any HP vendor lock in bypass tricks?

Posted by:
Greg Whynott



Date:
09-03-2010,
14:20:PM
ahh yes,  my favorite topic,  stupid vendor tricks.    new list request,   "SSA-StupidVendorTricks" which is all about the slaggings.  8)


I have to connect to a remote switch,  both 8212s,  over single mode fibre.     I have both a Cisco and Nortel SM SFP which work and are from globally  reputable vendors who both have been around since the start of networking (unlike procurve).   there are not some SFP knock offs nor counterfeits,  which i'm sure they'll try and convince you is what they are "protecting" you from.   when i plug either one into the 8212 I get an error:


I    09/03/10 13:05:17 00406 ports: port K3 xcvr hot-swap remove.
W 09/03/10 13:05:23 00533 FFI: port K3 Not a ProCurve transceiver. Please go to:
            www.hp.com/rnd/device_help/2_inform for more info.

On Cisco gear you will get a similar error but you can say " I understand that,  and I also understand support may not talk to me with any problems related to this port;   thanks for reminding me,  but I do want to use it",   by issuing the command "service unsupported-transceiver".   after doing that,  you can use any ones SFPs..

HP and Extreme appear to be the only ones who have a problem with you using something you already own which wasn't sourced from them as far as I am aware from my personal experience.

wtf?  that is pure bs and leaves a frigging nasty nasty taste in my mouth?   

there is no "yeah yeah, i get it" command you can enter to get around this error (like you can do on Cisco) according to support.  I'm sure there is a dev level command by they are not willing to share.      Apparently this was a "feature" they added in a firmware upgrade some time ago,   one day your switch did support 3rd party SFPs,   today it does not.    thats your value add.


i hope i haven't said anything which will get anyone bent out of shape again..  8D   


-g






  
Re: know of any HP vendor lock in bypass tricks?

Posted by:
Ken Spickler



Date:
09-03-2010,
16:15:PM
I just found this out this week with HP. It may apply to their NICs, too (rebranded QLogic). I'll have to test this out in the lab. I didn't realize Cisco recently changed this, nor that Extreme has implemented it. It used to be that Cisco would give you the finger with non-Cisco optics (and no "OK" bypass). Cisco was notorious for requiring you to buy their optics. Maybe HP is following their lead?

I've used non-Extreme optics in 450's and older 48si's and 7i's, although they said it wasn't "supported". Juniper accepts non-Juniper optics, and just shows this when you show the config. It otherwise works just fine.

Would it be helpful for us to create a page that shows various vendors of NICs, switches, and optics and show what's been tested and known to work? I doubt it would be exhaustive, since there's a whole bunch of mfrs of XFP/SFP/SFP+, but it might help others.

Ken Spickler
Sent from iPhone. Srry for tpos.

On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Greg Whynott <Greg.Whynott@oicr.on.ca> wrote:

ahh yes,  my favorite topic,  stupid vendor tricks.    new list request,   "SSA-StupidVendorTricks" which is all about the slaggings.  8)


I have to connect to a remote switch,  both 8212s,  over single mode fibre.     I have both a Cisco and Nortel SM SFP which work and are from globally  reputable vendors who both have been around since the start of networking (unlike procurve).   there are not some SFP knock offs nor counterfeits,  which i'm sure they'll try and convince you is what they are "protecting" you from.   when i plug either one into the 8212 I get an error:


I    09/03/10 13:05:17 00406 ports: port K3 xcvr hot-swap remove.
W 09/03/10 13:05:23 00533 FFI: port K3 Not a ProCurve transceiver. Please go to:
            www.hp.com/rnd/device_help/2_inform for more info.

On Cisco gear you will get a similar error but you can say " I understand that,  and I also understand support may not talk to me with any problems related to this port;   thanks for reminding me,  but I do want to use it",   by issuing the command "service unsupported-transceiver".   after doing that,  you can use any ones SFPs..

HP and Extreme appear to be the only ones who have a problem with you using something you already own which wasn't sourced from them as far as I am aware from my personal experience.

wtf?  that is pure bs and leaves a frigging nasty nasty taste in my mouth…   

there is no "yeah yeah, i get it" command you can enter to get around this error (like you can do on Cisco) according to support.  I'm sure there is a dev level command by they are not willing to share.      Apparently this was a "feature" they added in a firmware upgrade some time ago,   one day your switch did support 3rd party SFPs,   today it does not.    thats your value add.


i hope i haven't said anything which will get anyone bent out of shape again..  8D   


-g






  
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Re: know of any HP vendor lock in bypass tricks?

Posted by:
Greg Whynott



Date:
09-03-2010,
16:35:PM
just for clairty and so i'm not putting my own foot into my mouth (which i do from time to time..):

- The Cisco's I have you can do this on,  they are 6500's ASRs and 4000's.   I can't speak for their other products as this is something I've not had to do till I started working here.
- The Extreme information,  I am basing that on word of mouth,  I've not verified it myself but I could as we just picked up a pair of summit 650's.  
- I agree with the list.  but i think a more relevant list might be a list of specific questions to ask a vendor when considering their kit.  an targeted list of questions to weed out the gougers.   if they answer no to any of them,  they are no longer considered.   for example " is there any vendor lock in policy/practices your company applies to this product,  such as forbidding the use of 3rd party parts for common things,  like power cords and SFPs?"..   the list should be about 5-10 questions that will reveal the companies personality, openness and reasonableness

the list you are proposing may be very short:  8)

b: which SFPS does vendor X support?
a: only vendor X SFPs.


-g



On Sep 3, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Ken Spickler wrote:

I just found this out this week with HP. It may apply to their NICs, too (rebranded QLogic). I'll have to test this out in the lab. I didn't realize Cisco recently changed this, nor that Extreme has implemented it. It used to be that Cisco would give you the finger with non-Cisco optics (and no "OK" bypass). Cisco was notorious for requiring you to buy their optics. Maybe HP is following their lead?

I've used non-Extreme optics in 450's and older 48si's and 7i's, although they said it wasn't "supported". Juniper accepts non-Juniper optics, and just shows this when you show the config. It otherwise works just fine.

Would it be helpful for us to create a page that shows various vendors of NICs, switches, and optics and show what's been tested and known to work? I doubt it would be exhaustive, since there's a whole bunch of mfrs of XFP/SFP/SFP+, but it might help others.

Ken Spickler
Sent from iPhone. Srry for tpos.

On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Greg Whynott <Greg.Whynott@oicr.on.ca> wrote:

ahh yes,  my favorite topic,  stupid vendor tricks.    new list request,   "SSA-StupidVendorTricks" which is all about the slaggings.  8)


I have to connect to a remote switch,  both 8212s,  over single mode fibre.     I have both a Cisco and Nortel SM SFP which work and are from globally  reputable vendors who both have been around since the start of networking (unlike procurve).   there are not some SFP knock offs nor counterfeits,  which i'm sure they'll try and convince you is what they are "protecting" you from.   when i plug either one into the 8212 I get an error:


I    09/03/10 13:05:17 00406 ports: port K3 xcvr hot-swap remove.
W 09/03/10 13:05:23 00533 FFI: port K3 Not a ProCurve transceiver. Please go to:
            www.hp.com/rnd/device_help/2_inform for more info.

On Cisco gear you will get a similar error but you can say " I understand that,  and I also understand support may not talk to me with any problems related to this port;   thanks for reminding me,  but I do want to use it",   by issuing the command "service unsupported-transceiver".   after doing that,  you can use any ones SFPs..

HP and Extreme appear to be the only ones who have a problem with you using something you already own which wasn't sourced from them as far as I am aware from my personal experience.

wtf?  that is pure bs and leaves a frigging nasty nasty taste in my mouth?   

there is no "yeah yeah, i get it" command you can enter to get around this error (like you can do on Cisco) according to support.  I'm sure there is a dev level command by they are not willing to share.      Apparently this was a "feature" they added in a firmware upgrade some time ago,   one day your switch did support 3rd party SFPs,   today it does not.    thats your value add.


i hope i haven't said anything which will get anyone bent out of shape again..  8D   


-g






  
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